KRISTINA HAYES: Step by Step - Using Dance to Navigate Dementia

In this episode of Love Conquers Alz, Don and I sit down with Kristina Hayes, the inspiring founder of Waltz Through Life. Kristina shares her journey of using dance, movement, and creativity to support individuals and families navigating the challenges of aging, dementia, and caregiving. Through her unique approach, she brings joy, connection, and healing to those who need it most. We explore the power of music, movement, and mindfulness in transforming the caregiving experience. 

I know how powerful dance has been in my life. It truly is my form of meditation. The healing power of music and movement for people with Alzheimer's radiates through this heartwarming conversation. For 15 years, Kristina has witnessed firsthand how dance transforms seniors in memory care, creating magical connections when words fail.

"Dancing to music is a shortcut to a person's heart and miracle medicine for Alzheimer's," Kristina explains, describing how residents who appear disengaged suddenly come alive when music plays. Her journey from ballroom dance instructor to therapeutic dance facilitator happened almost by accident, but has evolved into deeply meaningful work that challenges conventional approaches to dementia care.

The conversation weaves through fascinating science about why music reaches people with cognitive decline—it lights up more regions of the brain than any other sensory input and remains accessible even in advanced stages of memory loss. Suzy shares poignant stories about singing with her mother, who responded to music when other forms of communication had slipped away.

Beyond the therapeutic benefits, this episode explores larger questions about how society views aging and elder care. The hosts advocate for a movement that values and integrates older adults rather than marginalizing them. "We're all headed to the same place if we're lucky enough to live a long life," Kristina observes, making a powerful case for reconsidering how we approach our later years.

This isn't just a conversation about dementia care—it's about reconnecting with what makes us human at every stage of life. Whether you're a caregiver seeking new approaches or simply someone interested in the healing power of movement, this episode will inspire you to turn up the music, move your body, and connect with others across all boundaries of age and ability. 

Subscribe, share, and keep dancing—it's good for your brain, body, and soul!

Love,

Susie xo

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Love Conquers Alzheimer's
• 3:42 Meeting Christina Hayes of Waltz Through Life
• 15:04 Music as Medicine for Dementia
• 28:47 The Magic of Movement in Memory Care
• 43:15 Ageism and Changing Perceptions of Elders
• 55:46 Embracing Aging with Confidence

Transcript

Don Priess: 0:00

When the world has got you down, Alzheimer's sucks. It's an equal opportunity disease that chips away at everything we hold dear and to date, there's no cure. So until there is, we continue to fight with the most powerful tool in our arsenal, love. This is love conquers all, a real and really positive podcast that takes a deep dive into everything Alzheimer's, The Good, The Bad and everything in between. And now here are your hosts, Susie singer Carter and me. Don Priess,

Susie Singer Carter: 0:40

hello, everybody. My name is Susie singer Carter,

Don Priess: 0:43

and I'm Don Priess, and this is love conquers all. Hello Susan,

Susie Singer Carter: 0:49

Donald, it's almost your birthday. I know almost Donald's birthday. It's coming up right around the corner, but

Don Priess: 0:58

of course, by the time they hear this, it will probably be next birthday, so I know, but it is very, it's very soon. I find with that, you know, I've been through a few, yeah, yeah, no, I'm excited, because it means that, you know, maybe has dinner involved, yeah? And I'm not dead. I'm still alive. I've done that part, and so, yeah, it's

Susie Singer Carter: 1:24

just my mom would say. My mom would say, Oh yeah, I'm alive. The alternative sucks Exactly.

Don Priess: 1:32

So it's all good. It's all good. And I'm celebrating because I'm not doing, yeah, I am too I'm and I'm celebrating because I'm not doing this episode from bed, and

Susie Singer Carter: 1:42

that's another celebration. We small things these days, I

Don Priess: 1:47

can actually stand and sit and walk all those fun things that we take for granted. We're talking about, but no

Susie Singer Carter: 1:54

back aches, you guys, that's what we're talking about. Talking about back problems, which are the which suck, because when you have your back is out, that's it. You cannot do. You don't even realize how much we depend on standing vertically and

Don Priess: 2:12

sitting and sitting, yeah, I couldn't sit yeah and laying down wasn't a picnic, either. So you know, no, it's

Susie Singer Carter: 2:21

not fun on the meds, not a party on the mend, which is good, then I don't have to be a caregiver for you anymore. I didn't mind conquers off.

Don Priess: 2:35

So what's happening? What's going on? What's the word?

Susie Singer Carter: 2:40

Yeah. So, nothing, nothing exciting to talk about. I can't. I was about to say something that I was like, I better censor that. I'm not going to say that. I can't. I was going to go, go for a download bitch section, but I don't think, oh no, no, no, no, no, although people might like it. But now

Don Priess: 2:59

just that'll be your next. That'll be the other podcast. Yeah, yeah. Suffice

Susie Singer Carter: 3:03

it to say the entertainment industry is, from time to time, is not, is not the most lovable. That's what it does. Not so much. Yeah, sometimes you get a little, a little thing in the back alley and, you know, you have to pick yourself up and go, Wow. I didn't expect that to happen, but, but thank God we have our caregiving community, which is very consistent, to say the least, and actually have their priorities in better order. I I'll say that, you know,

Don Priess: 3:41

for the for the most Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly for the most part. But

Susie Singer Carter: 3:46

no, everything's good. I just read a fantastic book that I want to recommend to people called inflamed, which is written by these two journalists from Northern California who recount in such a dynamic way the fires that occurred in a couple of years ago up in Sonoma, California, and there was a whole debacle of these two assisted livings, these high End assisted livings that just abandoned the residents and left and left them there, and without, you know, any thought to them, just went and left. And if it weren't for these heroes, these family members that went to go get their own loved one to make sure their loved one was okay, who actually stayed and rescued everybody, it would have been the most incredible, horrible disaster. I mean, anyway, the point is, is that it sounds horrible, but it so. It really will give you hope about of people and. Or ability to step up when it's when necessary, you know, and it's really exciting. It's an exciting book, believe it or not. And, yeah, I highly recommend it, especially if you're a caregiver, you know, get to see the insides, the sort of politics of what goes on in our industry, in terms of the industry of assisted living and long term care, which is, as we know, not the most. How do I say that nicely? Don they're not the

Don Priess: 5:34

most. It's impossible to say it nicely. No, it's corrupt for the most part. Let's say they have sometimes ulterior motives. A lot of

Susie Singer Carter: 5:44

there's a lot of great greed that's entered this industry, and that's why we do no country, yeah, and the corporate level. So you know that's no, no, no, no shade on the people that work there, or the residents, or anything, because ever everybody, except for the people making a lot of money are victims of the whole bad, broken system. So that's that's that. But the book will give you a really, you know, besides our documentary, this book will give you an in more of a narrative way, what, how, how things can go arise so quickly. But there's but don the flip side. How about things that go really good. Because, yeah, how much I, first of all, a I'm excited about our guest today, because a who loves dancing more than me,

Don Priess: 6:36

nobody. Oh yeah, that's right. I forgot about

Susie Singer Carter: 6:40

that. I love dancing so much. Everyone knows that I do hip hop, like, twice a week, and I've competed, and I love it. It's my drug, it's my it's my meditation. It's everything to me. And if I can't do that, if I can't get to those classes, I do anything. I'll do salsa, I'll do Zumba, whatever it is dancing makes me happy. It is I telling you, if you even if you can't dance, you should dance, because it's so good for you. It's good for your brain, it's good for your body, it's good for your soul. Sometimes it's better than sex, because you're so connected to everybody in the like, if you're doing a dance and and you're all you know, synchronized, what it's it's such a high, and I love it so much so. And also music, I mean, especially with Alzheimer's and dementia, it is, it is, it's magic, as I talk about that all the time. So Don Yes, why don't you introduce our incredible, exciting guest, and then we'll get into why I'm so excited. I

Don Priess: 7:44

would be honored to do that. Kristina Hayes is the creator of waltz through life, a small business bringing dance and music to senior citizens in assisted living and memory care units. For the past 15 years, she has witnessed firsthand the powerful healing benefits movement and music have on seniors living with physical challenges and early advanced memory loss. Kristina believes dancing to music is a shortcut to a person's heart and a miracle medicine for Alzheimer's and dementia. It's a fascinating subject. We can't wait to hear more, so let's not wait anymore and say hello to Kristina Hayes, hello, Kristina,

Kristina Hayes: 8:21

hi. Thank you for

Susie Singer Carter: 8:24

thank you for coming here. Look at we look like Charlie's Angels. We have the blonde, the red and this and the silver.

Kristina Hayes: 8:36

I love it. Don I have to ask you were you were laid up. You've been Did you hurt your back? Oh,

Don Priess: 8:44

yes, yes. I had a we drove back from a conference in San Francisco, and it took us about 10 hours. Got home at two in the morning and decided to carry four things of luggage up four flights of stairs, and the next day I was it was the worst I've ever felt in my

Kristina Hayes: 9:01

life, completely. So sorry. I had shoulder surgery a year ago. So, you know, coming off the pandemic and then having the surgery and healing, I'm finally getting back to the work I do. But you know, if you can't move your arms, it's, it's or, you know, I had to heal properly, which was just staying put, but yeah, there's, it's, it's, it's challenging, or, yeah,

Don Priess: 9:27

it's something we should keep in mind when, as caregivers, we should keep that in mind when the person that you're caring for can't do what we're used to be able to do, to have that, you know, to really take that in and say, Oh, I get it, you know, I have to maybe adjusting our expectations of them so

Susie Singer Carter: 9:44

totally, yeah, yeah, wow. I love, I love what you're doing. I love, I love, you know, waltzing through life, that's your program, right? Well, yeah, I

Kristina Hayes: 9:55

waltz through life, yeah. I had my business started. Um. Um, 20 years ago after a divorce, and I was like, oh, yeah, I should probably get a job, because I'm an actor, and I did that all through my 20s, but I was starting to feel like, I don't know, maybe I'm going to need something else. And the only thing that I had done other than acting, was teaching beginner ballroom at Arthur Murray. So I knew how to teach a ballroom program, a beginning ballroom program, backwards and forwards. And so I came up with the idea to teach wedding couples their first dance for their wedding. And that's where Walt's through life initially came from. And then when the recession happened, the 2007 housing crisis. And, you know, a lot of businesses were affected. Definitely a business like, like, the wedding industry just kind of collapsed, and so people weren't wanting to spend money on first dances anymore. And I was like, I don't know where to take my dancing. And then I just had the idea to go into assisted livings and and so Walt through life still felt like a relevant name of my business, so I kept it, and I just transitioned into that world that's

Susie Singer Carter: 11:14

a mate, wait so you didn't have any any family or loved ones in an assisted living or Long Term Care at nothing. No.

Kristina Hayes: 11:21

But, you know, I, I, I grew up my, my grandmother worked in an assistant or she, she worked in a lot of group homes when I was a kid, and she would pick me up in a like, in a bus on Saturday mornings and take me to all these places. And so she worked at, I guess the equivalent of assisted living, it didn't in my memory, but I was very young, it doesn't. They didn't look like the places that I work now, because they now it looks more like, like a kind of hotel, or like, you know, a Marriott residency. Yeah. So I had, I had worked with seniors that way, but, but no, otherwise, it just kind of came to me. I was like, All right, let's try that. And

Susie Singer Carter: 12:15

that's so interesting, because, like, I would, and let, I mean, not many people would that would default to that to go, Hey, I'm gonna go teach seniors how to dance. That's It's so incredible.

Kristina Hayes: 12:28

I will say that. So you come from hip hop, and I don't, I my ballroom. Ballroom is my only background and social ballroom specifically. So I didn't what you see on Dancing with the Stars. That's, you know, international ballroom, and that's competition style, social dancing in general. And I do all, you know, all kinds of social dance, swing, salsa, anything that tango, anything that's social, which is just having fun, which you guys said, like, you know, even if you don't know how to dance or you're not good at it, you know, and that's the kind of people that social dancing attracts, you can get very good, you know, the more you put into it. But I started doing that when I was, like, 17, and I was very young in the social ballroom world, so I was always like, the youngest person, and I, I just always got along with people older than me. It was I just had an affinity to them and and I, I've always loved, you know, I was felt like I was born in the wrong time. So, you know, it was like, I, you know, I walked into a ballroom, you know, at 17, and I thought, Oh, I found my people. Yeah, that's

Susie Singer Carter: 13:43

so great. I was watching your video on your on your website, of you dancing with the, like, the chair dancing. Yeah, I so relate to that. Because I can't, you know, just I did so much chair dancing when I would go visit my mom, because I, you know, they'd have, like, a musical guest there, you know, entertaining. And I just come out and start dancing with the people in chairs, and they loved it so much, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's,

Kristina Hayes: 14:10

I mean, my first experience teaching a chair dance class, I was totally by accident. So I started when I was promoting waltz through life for seniors and assistant livings. I started promoting socials, like dance socials, so I would get hired for Christmas parties and and so it's like a slow build. And I started developing relationships with different chains, and then once you get in one, then you know, they'll hire you at another and and then someone had said, like, oh, this would be a great class. It was actually, actually Belmont Burbank. And I Belmont village in Burbank. And so when I walked in to do the class, as opposed to a. Social where I'm like, a host, a dance hostess, like, hello everybody. And, you know, I bring the fun and the music, and I go around and dance with people. But also, you know, sit in my chair a little and get just what you were doing with your mom and and facilitating the dancing, getting it going. And so when I got asked to do a class. I walked in and everybody was in wheelchairs, and I was like, oh, okay, I was I wasn't expecting that, so I just improvised. I come from an improv background as well, a comedy improv background,

Susie Singer Carter: 15:37

which has been very helpful. Yes, it is. Yeah,

Kristina Hayes: 15:41

it's good to have a sense of humor, to think on the fly, and just also, just to be very in the moment, especially with people with advanced memory loss and and cognitive, you know, decline, yeah. So I, so I walked in and everybody's in a wheelchair, and I thought, all right, well, join them. So I just sat in a chair and I did my I put my playlist on, and I just took, you know, a step or two from each dance, like a Cha Cha and I did the Cha Cha step, and I came up with some arm movements. And that was the birth of my ballroom inspired chair dance class and so, and that was with circle of friends, which is the is, you know, the a group with early onset dementia at the Belmont village, which is a great thing, because it's a way to stay integrated in in the community. And yeah, I did that for years, and then I just started doing chair dance class everywhere. And then when I got asked to go into the the memory care units to do it, it became my favorite thing, and it became its own thing. So it was like a mix of chair dance and one on one, dancing and music therapy, you know, sing alongs, it was just always what it whatever it became in that moment, right, right, right, anything you could plan. It was just and still to this day, it's, it's my, my favorite, my favorite work that I do is, is working with people with advanced dementia.

Susie Singer Carter: 17:21

Interesting. I love it because, yeah, because they are, they would benefit so much from it, right? Because sometimes, when I would walk into the memory unit, and like I said, sometimes it's the land of the zombies, and people are, you know, very much unengaged. And then when you engage them, and you have patience then, especially with music, especially with movement, if, even if it's just a little bit of hand movement, because everything,

Kristina Hayes: 17:48

yeah, yes, exactly. I mean, that's a lot of what? And, you know, I didn't, I don't have a master's. I'm not a dance dance therapist. By, you know, it's all on the job training like I did this, right? I've done it for over 15 years, probably 17, and, you know, you just learn as you go. And you know, some people have a knack for it. I did listen to your episode with the woman that it has. Oh, it's called enough, the show enough. I wrote it down because I want to see it. Um, she's the dancer you had on. I think it was, it was in 2020, so it's a long time ago at this point.

Don Priess: 18:30

Oh, one of the original shows. Yeah, okay, yeah.

Kristina Hayes: 18:33

One of the original Yeah. She was fantastic. And I was like, Oh, she gets it. Like, she, you know, you just, I think some people just kind of have a knack for it. And, and, yeah, it's a lot of it is touch therapy too, like you're, you know, especially coming from a ballroom world. I mean, I'm used to holding people when I dance or being held. And so it's about holding people to music, yeah, too. And, and it, it's, you know, it's, they're between what the music is doing to their brain and lighting it up. And then you've got, you know, the limbic system working. And it's like, you know that you're, it's like you're, you're motivated to snap or clap, and so I'm just doing really simple things with them. And it's like, you see people like you said, people that look like zombies, really. I mean, I you know, they and suddenly they're alive and they and they light up, and it's magic. And I'm like, oh my, it's so powerful. It's like, it's my experience, and it's one of the things that I hope to because I've been doing this so long, and I fell into this totally by accident. I never thought I'd be doing this work. But if, if I can bring a message to it in some way, it's that I have been more moved by people at the end of their life. Life with dementia than anybody in my life. It's been very spiritual for me to see that, that that the spirit is still still there and still alive and and and sometimes the way you experience that with people who don't have all the details that we have about who we are. You know, it's like the by the noise,

Susie Singer Carter: 20:30

by the noise, all the noise, all the noise, yeah,

Kristina Hayes: 20:33

yeah. And it's, and it's the things that we are driven by. We can't help it, you know? It's the things that I will let get me down the most that, you know, I should on my bio. I should have had this. I didn't have kids, I didn't get it and all this. And it's like, you see, then I'm with these people dancing, and it's just pure light. And I'm like, oh, none of that matters. And like, right? I know. And I just, I, I read, I follow a lot of things on Instagram, and I about, you know, dementia and Alzheimer's, and it's, it's so often, most of it is very sad and, and I'm like, Man, you got to come with me. Like, come dance. They're my favorite dance partners, like,

Susie Singer Carter: 21:21

right, right, right? It's life. It's

Kristina Hayes: 21:23

about life. Like, I'm with you 100% I

Susie Singer Carter: 21:26

say that all the time, like, I It's such a it's so it was so much fun for me to to go and and, you know, really experience that. Like, it's, it's the epitome of Zen, right? So that you are, yes, you are in the moment. And, like, yeah, you know, and it, and it really takes on just the basics of life. Like, you know, it's about, it's about respect. So, like, you know, if I'm gonna go touch someone, I'm gonna go, Hi, do you want to dance with me? I wanted Yes. And they're gonna say no or yes, right? And then they're gonna and then, and if they don't like it, they're gonna tell you they don't like it. If they love it, they're going to tell you, I love this and I love you. Let's have sex.

Kristina Hayes: 22:05

Yes, oh yeah, there. Oh my god, I love when I get heckled. I'll have over the years. I mean, there's some of my funniest stories. I'm like, Oh, this one does not like me. And, you know, it's but, but it's the honesty is

Susie Singer Carter: 22:21

refreshing. It's so refreshing. It's so refreshing. It's like babies and and people with dementia. There's a no, Bs and animals, right? Yes, right. It's yeah. You know, my mom would look at somebody that like my mom, you know, full of decorum, but as as her, you know, disease progress, you go, somebody would walk by, and my mom would go, wow, she's got a big behind on her. Oh, I go, Oh yeah, mom, she can hear you. She goes, I'm just saying, it's the truth. And, oh yeah,

Kristina Hayes: 22:52

yeah, there's i I've, oh, I've had all kinds of things said. And I'm just, I'm like, delighted by it. And I'm just like, Yeah, I love it. I'm like, you have to like me. It's fine, you know what I mean? And I And I'm, you get your, you know it's, it's, uh, yeah, it's definitely, you have to be somebody good with boundaries and being able to read people's energy. And it's like, I'll be approaching someone, and I'm like, uh, not today exactly. You just feel it. You're like, No, not today. Well, I see what

Susie Singer Carter: 23:25

you're doing is really awesome, because it's really demonstrating the fact that, because someone loses, you know, a skill of articulating, right? So that that ability to articulate words, which you know, we learn how to articulate, and then often we lose how to articulate right. So, but that doesn't stop us from communicating with animals who don't articulate right or right children, or children who don't articulate yet. And then, why does it stop us from articulate or communicating with people who are elderly that can't articulate right because they're still there. So you can get, you can get communication in different ways, and it's

Kristina Hayes: 24:08

just different. It's just different, and it's the same as we're learning more about neuro divergency And how, you know, I have ADHD so, you know, I have always felt, since I was a kid, a little, you know, a little little bit of a weirdo, like people, don't, you know, I mean, or, or, you know, it was always funny. So I was able to, like, get away with a lot of my quirkiness that, right, could, you know, because I had maybe a different communication style, you know. And I so, you know, and we're starting to respect that more, you know, with with people with that are on the spectrum, and realizing that it's more people out there that we're communicating with on a daily basis than realize, right? Well,

Susie Singer Carter: 24:56

it's called, it's called a spectrum. We're all on it all to. Spectrum. We can't it wouldn't be a spectrum if we weren't all on it somewhere, right? So we're

Kristina Hayes: 25:04

all on it, yeah? So why do we have to be boxed into this? So when I it's, it's again, it's like, when I walked into the ballroom at 17 and said, Oh, I found my people. When I walked into the, you know, memory care dementia unit, I was like, oh, there's my people. And like, I don't know, I just, I felt really connected, and you're like, those didn't, yeah, yeah. Well, they are, to me, believe it or No, yet they know you're

Susie Singer Carter: 25:32

because you understood it innately and like, and maybe because you are a weirdo, like you said, like, I'm a weirdo too. I think, you know, I think that that gives you that superpower, you know that that is to be, to be able to to be open to to not take quirks, if that's what the word is, you know, as as a negative, as opposed to being interesting and

Kristina Hayes: 25:58

interesting, yes, right, exactly. Yeah, I never leave one of these places without feeling, first of all, high, which is what you were saying about dancing, right? Like there's this, there's this energy that I get that's unlike anything else, specifically with people that are that have the advanced dementia, and that's where there's, like, this beauty that's very poetic that, you know, they're that they've lost all the things that humans we've all decided are important, like, you know, like the details of our past and

Susie Singer Carter: 26:39

where we're Going my new Share and minutia, yeah, yeah. And it's, there's no bad, there's no memory, there's no there's no faster forward. It's just now, now, now, now, now. Yeah. And

Kristina Hayes: 26:49

I'm not trying to say like, Oh, wow. You know they're, they're like, you know they're living their best life, but I do think that if we gave people more it, what you know, the more research that's done, and the more you know, hey, the more dancing, just dancing and music, like, like, you know, when I turn my that music on, and I'll see people that are in the back of the room. And, you know, because you've been in these places who are not engaged and depressed, of course. I mean, there's no windows in these places, you know, they have to be locked down. There's, you know, so you're not getting all this natural light. It's, it can be depressing, and yet this music goes on, and it's like their eyes just shift, and suddenly the lights go on. And, you know, there's a whole world, you know, and, and it's so I just, I think, I think, the more you know, I guess, I guess it's really just about, you know, I'm so glad with all this research about music and the brain that just more and more stuff is coming out all the time, and so people hopefully don't have to suffer as much, right,

Susie Singer Carter: 28:16

right? I wondered when you, oh, go ahead. I was just going to say, just to go back to the point that you said they're about them living their best life. Maybe they are living their best. Maybe, maybe because once, you know, I say once my mom crossed over the bridge, you know, where she was fighting Alzheimer's, and she, she, you know, just accepted it and surrendered. She was a happy chap. I'm not saying everyone is Susie, but I mean, sometimes it it can be liberating to go. I am in my I'm in my last chapter, whatever it is. And I am like when I would say to my mom, like I said earlier, how are you today, Mommy? I am great. I'm alive. The alternative sucks. What's to eat, right? I mean, so if everything is very down to basic, this

Kristina Hayes: 29:05

whole Yeah, very Yes, we'll

Don Priess: 29:08

be right back.

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Kristina Hayes: 30:08

There is something about dancing and the music that is so pure and like they're able to completely immerse themselves in a way that even somebody like me who loves music and dance like your your mind's still always in the world, in different places and and there's this focus that I've never seen before on just the music. And it's like, whoa. Like, it's just really magical. But

Susie Singer Carter: 30:36

don't you think when, well, for me, when I'm dancing, and I say, I said this earlier, that when about for me, it's like my meditation, because I'm really terrible at meditating. It's very difficult for me because I also have a lot of ADD and I'm just like, I will end up like I took Don to a yoga class once it was it was meditation slash yoga at this really posh place here in LA and we, we literally got kicked out because we were like, no, because I could not hold it together and be so serious with the with, you know, the breathing and then like that, and the yelling and like all those things, yeah, oh

Kristina Hayes: 31:15

no, I can. No, no, I can. I wouldn't be able to do it either. No, no. Dancing is the closest thing to meditating, because you can't think of anything else right now when you're because you're just focused on the music, yeah,

Susie Singer Carter: 31:27

if you think of something else, you're gonna miss a step. You just will, yeah. So, yeah, you know, even if you're really trained at it, you know, like, if you really know a routine, if you go, Hey, I did I pick up something, you're gonna go, wait, what step was I on? You can't do that,

Kristina Hayes: 31:41

right? You can't, yeah, and with, with, you know, social dancing, lead and follow, like you're, it's, you're in sync with another person. If you start focusing on anything else, like as a follower, you know, then you're, you're gonna be, you know, you're lost, yeah, you're nice, you're gonna get stepped on or, yeah, exactly.

Susie Singer Carter: 32:00

So I think, I think for that reason, it's, it is very, you know it, I think all of us become focused and engaged, and I think that that's a beautiful thing. I mean, I've also told this story where there was a woman at my mom's place that was assisted living, where she had a personal caregiver that was with her every day, Ruth, what's her name, and she was very elegant woman, but she didn't talk at all, ever, ever, ever, ever, and but we, every time my daughters and I, or Don or whoever was with us, we'd always sing with my mom. We'd be at the table, and people would come around. And we were singing yesterday, from The Beatles, doing our, doing our harmony, being our, being the Judds, you know. And and she starts singing along. And, I mean, like full on singing. And it turned out she was a dancer, a professional dancer, and her caregiver goes, Ruth, you're singing. She goes, Yeah, as if there was no big deal about it. She was just right there with us. And that was the first time I saw because my mom was a singer, so I didn't know that it really was that magical with everybody. I thought that was my secret key with my mom. But no, it was. It's everybody,

Kristina Hayes: 33:20

yeah. And when you have somebody like, my job is to come in and and not have any inhibition, you know, I have to be completely, you know, uninhibited. And so they see me being like, you know. And it gives people freedom, the freedom and the license, like, oh, okay, I can do that too, you know. And they get into it, you know, but it so that's, that's part of, you know, be, what I'm good at is just getting people to get over themselves and like, yeah,

Don Priess: 33:51

so when you okay? So you come in with all your wonderfulness and your music and your dance, and you light up the room, and everyone's joyous. And then you leave. Do you leave them with either the facility, the CNAs, anyone, the what? What do you know stories of them doing anything in the world of the dance that you just showed them, or anything once you leave, when you're gone, or is it just for the time? And if not, how can we make this part of their lives, when the what with you, the one person are not there,

Kristina Hayes: 34:26

that's a great that's a great question. And no I, when I get hired at a with a new activity director, and a lot of times, people have big ideas about what you're going to be able to do with people like, oh, would it be great if it culminated in this performance? And that was something recently that happened to me, and I I just go along. It's like, yes. I am like, okay, sure, you know, we'll do that. Yes, yes, you know. But like, I know that they will get. If they drop in and they'll get in time that that's not where people are at, you know, so So like in terms of performance, I mean, I still that's an idea that I'd love to be able to try to do with with people. But that being said, I hope that i i Sometimes, I always say, keep dancing, you know, until next time, until I come again and keep dancing, you know, and, and it's something that I, I used to say to people before class, you know, in like my chair dance classes, who has, who has music in their room. Do you who? You know, you would be surprised how many people did not have CD players. And I say CD players because you know that that is what a lot of these people would have had pre pandemic. So when I I mean, I've been doing this work a long time. I did actually a drive for Christmas once, where I had people donating CD players and CDs, because in some of the the lower income places, people really didn't, they didn't have anything. And I'm like, we need, you need to be listening to music, like in your this is, this is fights depression, this fights, you know, I mean, it's just so good for people. So I, I wish that I had more of a dialog with the places that I work. But, you know, I guess I'm lucky that they hire me. I get to come in and do my thing, but, but it does feel like when you leave, you know, you're like, oh, they were just so happy. They, you know, they, they had these amazing moments. And I want them to have more of them, not just one hour a week, or even sometimes I'm only there once a month, you know. And that's not enough. This needs to be like should be every day, all the time, right, right? I

Susie Singer Carter: 36:57

feel like it should be every day. Because, you know, for me, if you said you're going to go to Body Works class or dance class, I'm going to choose dance and you're going to get an incredible workout. You're going to, you know all, there's only good that comes from that, right? So, yeah, and something doing that every day would be so healthy and helpful in so many ways, psychologically and physically, absolutely,

Don Priess: 37:30

yeah, and it's amazing because, you know, they have their activities directors and activities and all you know, and to be able to incorporate something this is, you know, you do it in a wonderful way, but pretty it's not that complicated to put on some music and say, move or just move. You don't have to have, you know, choreography or anything. As opposed to standing in front of a monitor and showing an old movie, you know, put it, put music on there and let them move around. You know, it doesn't seem that complicated or that difficult to as one of the activities they do, yeah, you know, I

Kristina Hayes: 38:05

have memory care. Sometimes I don't know if it was a thing where I would come I put my music on and, you know, it's it. I would feel bad turning it off when it was time to leave, you know. And so I did start to see aids. I probably mentioned it, you know, to a few different people, but like, why don't you keep the music playing? So then they would have their own music that would would come on when I left, because I didn't want there to just be, you know, back to, you know, the silence, at least for, at least until, let's say, they go to dinner. You know what I mean, like, let's have, I mean, I have thought of putting it in writing, you know, in a like a Living Will to if anything happens to me, that is any kind of cognitive thing, whether you know, I have an accident or I end up with dementia, please make sure good music is playing most of the time, maybe not all the time. Give me a break. But because I just, I just know that it's the benefits of it, right?

Susie Singer Carter: 39:21

Yeah, no, I hear you. I used to put, I had no up in my mom's room for that, you know, the CNAs to please leave the music on, because my mom was so, you know, that was her soul. Was music, yes, yeah. And I knew that, you know when and as as you start losing, you know, more and more from this disease, that that becomes, you know, everything is, yeah, I

Kristina Hayes: 39:47

would say, you know, I'm somebody. I have a history of depression. I'm, I'm not ashamed of that, you know, and and in my, some of my dark, darkest. With it when you're trying to find, you know, hope and music. For me has always been like in in the times when I really felt like, I don't know, I just don't, I don't have a lot of purpose, or I don't have a lot of, you know, something to get up for and, you know, and this is, you know, over the years. And you know, we have, we have highs and lows, rises and falls, which is, yeah, and so, you know. But I will listen to a piece of music and go, I'm glad I'm alive for this. I just this piece of music. I got to hear it, and I get to hear it as much as as many times as I want to play it in this lifetime, you know. And just music is, music is really important to me. And I think that some people don't even realize how important it is until, you know, they get older, yeah, and they and they and other things are gone now. And then you put a piece of music on, and it's like, you just see this, this joy take over them, and it's

Susie Singer Carter: 41:12

brain stem and say it's eating, is one of those joys that we don't lose until you know we're on death's bed, doorway, really, and then and music, you know, is forever you will.

Kristina Hayes: 41:27

Music is the last sensory that the brain you know it, it, it's the last to go so you know you're you. If you lose your language, your you know all of it, you still can enjoy music and and it lights up more regions of the brain than any other sensory so it's, and they're, I mean, they're just, they're doing all kinds of studies now, like learning that, you know, studying that how a specific kind of music could actually be the right medicine for this particular disease, like yes or Parkinson's, yeah, yeah. And then, of course, there's just music that and I that was the other reason that I think I always fit into this world, because being like an old soul, I I love all kinds of music. But I definitely have always had a lot of knowledge about, you know, older music, like big band music, and being from the ballroom world too. So so I kind of know the hits that you know, like that, that get them going, and that light them up and they know. And people I have seen who absolutely like, they don't talk anymore, they they can't, they don't have language anymore. But what music does is it, it brings that back for them. I've had they'll, they'll know every word to a song, yeah. And I'm sure you've seen this, Susie, yeah, and with your mom, and then, and then they, they do, they they'll have little moments where they speak and say something really profound. And I'm like, wow, it was like the music, you know, was the medicine that it's the

Susie Singer Carter: 43:16

key that opens the door. That's what I always said with my mom, if, then, if I was patient enough and sat there long enough and sang my heart out, because I would go and do my dog, my dog and pony show, you know, always with my mom, and as she was declining, and, oh, it always woke her up, you know, to and I tell this story all the time, but three months before she died, and she hadn't talked, you know, for months, and she just stopped like in the middle of me doing my show, and her just leaned forward and said, I love you. Just clear as Yeah, as she Oh my

Kristina Hayes: 43:49

gosh, isn't it? Yeah, I actually was looking at your Instagram of stalking you last night, knowing I was gonna meet you today, and I was, I think maybe this was it. You had posted a photo of your mom, and I think it was, you know, towards the end of her life, and you said something really magical had happened that day. And I don't even know if you shared the details, but I knew. I was like, oh yeah, oh yeah. That's, you know, I haven't had a loved one, but I, I, I sort of love that we're anonymous, in a way, to each other, and they're giving me hits of, like, God hits, you know? Like, yeah, you know not to talk about God, but you know what I mean? These like, just, just like, Oh, thank you. That was better than going to church, you know,

Susie Singer Carter: 44:44

yeah, no, I Yeah. So it's, I tell people that all the time is that it's so, it's so satisfying, it's so it fills your soul and, you know, and it's why I'm on a mission to make a. Change in the way we collectively think about our elder population, because we, we don't understand, and I don't, I'm not faulting people, but we don't understand and we and we just devalue them, and we, we abandon them, which

Kristina Hayes: 45:17

is devaluing yourself, because exactly like this is the last marginalized group that we, you know. I mean, I say that, i It seems to be, I'm like, okay, aging, aging will be next, you know, but we're all going there. And so, you know, when doing this work for as long as I have, and I work with, you know, I've, over the years, worked with kids too, and they're magical, too, and that. But I'm like, I, you know, I don't want to tell my friends with kids this, but I'm like, I look at little kids and I'm like, Oh yeah, you're, you're, they're gonna get old one day. Like, I'm, I'm thinking,

Susie Singer Carter: 45:55

I think that, you know, the time, I think it's like, I didn't

Kristina Hayes: 45:59

have babies of my own, but I dance with, you know, I dance all these people. They're, they're just babies that got old. You know, exactly. That's

Susie Singer Carter: 46:07

how I think I see it. I see that exact same thing. I mean, my mom became my daughter, in a way, even though she wasn't. And I, I loved her so much, towards the end, even more, and I always loved her, but there was something, oh, what happened? Oh, everything went white for a second. Oh, no, we're still recording

Kristina Hayes: 46:31

mom. Is that maybe that was your mom saying, hi. That's

Susie Singer Carter: 46:35

bizarre. Okay, anyway, yeah, but I I felt this thing like as much as I loved my mom, but I suddenly felt I saw her as as who she was as a little girl, and this lovey, and because her her nickname was lovey, and all of her family from the East Coast would called her lovey till my through my whole life. And I didn't know why, and then I realized that's why, because that's who she is. She's lovey. She was a love bug. And I I had this feeling like I do with my own daughters, like I loved her, and when I see her face from that time period, those last six months, is like my own little girl that I might she was precious to me at that point.

Kristina Hayes: 47:25

Yeah, there it. We're all we're we all walk around with the same vulnerability, no matter you know what, where we are. You know the people at the top, the people here, everybody. And it's like when, and this is the one thing, if you're lucky enough, you know, to live a long life, we're all headed there the same the same place, and yeah, just it doesn't make any sense anymore, especially because we're all living longer to not our life gets we, we get to have More meaning when we we extend a person's potential by saying, life isn't over at this age or that age. And, you know, I mean, and I heard you say this on one of the podcasts, oh, Jenny. With Jenny's podcast, she's amazing, right? With

Susie Singer Carter: 48:15

Love Again,

Kristina Hayes: 48:17

yeah. And just saying that it has to be a movement, and it's like, you know, I'm down, I'm on board for that movement. Because, good. We have to do it, right? We have to, we can't just, you know, it's like, there's the life events, right? Like, you know, you go on Facebook and it's like, the life events, like, I got married, I had a baby, I moved to this city, I got this job, and then, you know, and suddenly those life events stop for people, but, but they don't have to. We, it's sort of this creation.

Susie Singer Carter: 48:53

We create, yeah, we had a structure that worked, you know, it worked economically, right? So, 65 oh, yeah, it's about economics, and economics so it works, you know, and so suddenly everybody is retiring at 65 and and it's sort of like built in, because you get your Social Security at 65 and you sort of out, and you you aged out of a lot of careers that you were in for no reason, for no good reason, aged out, because that's That was a weird construct that happened. And, and I, you know, I'm here to tell you that there's, you know, I think when you hit 65 it's a whole new chapter. And, and I don't think, why would you stop working? I don't under to me, I don't understand it, because the whole life is based on purpose. And the minute you lose your purpose is the minute you have, you know, failure to thrive. Because what is your point of Go? What is your what is getting you up every day?

Kristina Hayes: 49:51

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, and, you know what boomers have? My mother's a boomer. They have more money in this country right now. Than anybody does, so, you know. So I feel like, in some ways, you are seeing, you're starting to see this very slow shift, you know, like just even having, like, the bachelor, the Bachelorette, the golden back, the bachelor, because, you know, they know that my mom's going to watch that, you know. And it's like, there, there are these, these, these shifts, but it does need to be a movement. And I guess it starts with, you know, podcasts like this, yeah, you just gotta Yeah, yeah. And living boldly and saying, you know, I'm, you know, Yeah, amazing. And I'm getting, you know, I mean, I know that I feel, Oh, my God, I had more opportunities in my 20s, and yet I'm like, in every way, like romantically in my career. And I'm like, What a shame. I'm like, I am 100 times more qualified in every way now I yeah, I just have to create those opportunities for myself. And don't, you know, just keep putting your putting yourself out there. Don't go away. You can't go away. I'm doing

Susie Singer Carter: 51:11

this talk show that's like, it was a pilot that I just did, and it's about, you know, aging, aging, you know, in a way that's dynamic, as opposed to, you know, the opposite and, and some of some of the panel was taught, we're talking about, you know, women who you become invisible. And I think, do you or is it because you make you decide that you know the the the the bar that was your bar at 20, can't be the same bar. And, you know, I mean the bar that we you know, are how we view ourselves. If we go, okay, I'm 50, and I look in the mirror and I go, I'm a hot 50 year old, okay, why? And I'm but instead of comparing yourself to someone who's 20, that's, you know, you don't want to date a 20 year old guy anyway, right? So if, no, no, I mean, so if you can, I think we make ourselves disappears what I'm saying, I agree. We're looking for different kind of of feedback that doesn't makes, that doesn't make it doesn't, it's not the same feedback we're gonna get now, because it shouldn't be. It shouldn't be, it should be way more mature than it was when we were 20. Then, like, Hey, you look hot bitch. You know, that's not what we're about anymore, right?

Kristina Hayes: 52:35

When I said, I should say, because I feel empowered by this too, like, even though I had more opportunities. I was saying, you know, romantically, career wise, in my 20s, i i 100% feel sexier now than I've ever felt in my life. So it's like because of who I am, because, you know, and and I, yeah, I do think absolutely when I see certain friends who, you know, we're all the same age. I'm 49 and it's like, you know, oh, like, it's almost like they're just waiting to van, like 12 o'clock is gonna strike and they're gonna turn into a pumpkin. And it's like, I'm not, I'm doing everything, you know, I'm not turning into a pumpkin, no. And I think we

Susie Singer Carter: 53:19

need to, we need to, we need to, you know, propagate that conversation because it makes, it makes much more sense than to say, okay, because it's such an old construct anyway. And if you look, you know, I used to be married to someone who's who is British, and you know, his, my, my ex's brother was, was in his 20s, was married to a woman who was 47 and you know, there is a very there, you know, women who are older, for the most part, in in Europe, are much more respected, and COVID, yeah, the younger women. So we need to flip that a little bit, because, you know, younger women are looked at, you know, they're, they're just, they're, they're like, they're babies, you know. And grown women are much more, you know, attractive. There's a there's a lot to them. What say you don Well,

Don Priess: 54:07

I say it's, it's not, it's not letting, well, I know nothing about this older thing. I don't know what you guys are talking about, but I think it's not letting other people, not letting other people define you do not let, that's the thing. We let society define us. We let other people define us, as opposed to, you know, to setting your own bar. You know, it's not about, you know, low you know, it's not about lowering your bar. It's about just changing where that bar sits. Yeah, it's, it's not about, you know, because we are so reliant on what society feels about us and what our you know, what our friends or somebody who's 18 years old thinks about us, it doesn't matter. You have to define yourself. And you know that's hard. It's hard because you have all these external, you know, elements that are coming in every day that you hear and see on so. Media on television, movies, you see. But you have to, you have to know who you are and and not, and not be so hard on yourself. That's the thing. We are so hard on ourselves because of those external you know, we have to do, you know, and it's finding and and saying and adapting and saying, Okay, I can't do this anymore, but look at this, because I have all this life experience. Look what I can do now that I couldn't do then, you know, and finding those things. But

Susie Singer Carter: 55:29

isn't it? Oh, go on. Go on. Christina, I

Kristina Hayes: 55:33

was just, I was gonna say another thing from, I think it was Jenny's episode about integrating young and old or younger generation? Yes, intergenerational. That word, I want to you know that that alone, like would change so much because you know you're seeing, you know, you know little people learning from people have been on the planet longer and and, you know, older people getting life from, it's just, it's the way it's supposed to be. It's not so

Susie Singer Carter: 56:10

that, yeah, yeah. Now it's gonna say, like, you know, we are hard on ourselves. My mother, who was five foot tall, and, you know, always a little bit soft tick, as they say. And my mom had more game than I have ever had in my entire life with men, and till the day she died. Like, literally at those listen until the day she died. Like, there. I mean, I could tell you stories, and I'm your party, not these places, my mom, but my mom. Mom was magnetic. And why was she magnetic? Because she just had confidence in herself as as who she was, and she and she was interested in other people, and she was very communicative. And you know, if she liked you, she'd be like, Wow, you're handsome. And then, and like, it's very disarming, right? And she would tell one other woman that, like she would go, Wow, are you gorgeous, you know. And my mom, you know, and when I was struggling turning 30, I remember, it's like, my mother was like, Are you nuts? Are you nuts? Like she goes, What is wrong with you

Kristina Hayes: 57:15

know, I want to kick my younger self. Yeah, a million times for thinking, yeah.

Don Priess: 57:20

But if you ever want to feel, if you ever want to feel, and Susie says this all the time, if you ever want to feel really great about yourself and feel young, go visit a senior living facility. Oh, are you?

Kristina Hayes: 57:31

I can roll out of bed and put some lipstick on there. It was like, You're a gorgeous honey. And I know I would

Susie Singer Carter: 57:37

go and visit my mom. They go, Oh, you're is that your grandmother? And I go, No, it's my mom. What? How old are you? And I go, hold Do you think 23 I go, 20 right. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Kristina Hayes: 57:49

They I love. When they're they'll say, are you married? And I'm like, Well, I'm divorced. Do you have kids? No, oh, you have plenty of time. And I'm thinking, like, right. How old do you think I am? However it is, please. You know, there are, you know, they think you're so much younger than you are. Yeah,

Susie Singer Carter: 58:06

yeah, it's a win. It's a win win. It's a win win, y'all and and actually, if you take a look at yourself, because how many times do we look back at ourselves when we were younger and go, Oh, I was so hard on myself. So why not just look yeah. So look at yourself the way those people look at you.

Kristina Hayes: 58:23

That's it. And because, you know what, someone said this to me, I don't remember who, but they said, today is the youngest you're ever going to be. That's right, it's the oldest I've ever been. It's like, oh yeah, I'm never going to be this young. So what am I complaining about? I better just enjoy it, right? And it'll be

Don Priess: 58:39

that way. Tomorrow, it'll be that way tomorrow you'll be

Kristina Hayes: 58:42

that's a better way of looking at it. You know, always thinking, just aging? Yes, exactly, yeah, but you're still the youngest you'll ever be today, all of us, right? Charlie's Angel, post

Susie Singer Carter: 58:57

angels. And I'm gonna say with that, it's all about music. It's all about dance. It's all about Christina Hayes was, was a great conversation. We enjoyed talking to you so much. And we love we love you, and that's why I love

Kristina Hayes: 59:12

you guys. This, yeah, this is amazing. Thank you so much for so welcome.

Don Priess: 59:17

Don bring us on home. It's all about love. It's a big love fest here, and there's one reason for that, and that is and that's because love is powerful, love is contagious, and love conquers all. We thank everyone for watching listening today, if you like what you saw, or even if you just were okay with it, why don't you subscribe and share and all those good things, we'll have all of Christina's information in the show notes, and we just got to say, everyone to dance. On dancing. Keep on dancing.

Kristina Hayes: 59:49

In the meantime,

Don Priess: 59:53

take care. Everyone. Okay, bye. Bye.

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