JACKLYN RYAN: Author of Bestseller "Caregivers Scaretakers" - Exposing Fraud in Senior Care

Season 8 kicks off with episode 80 - a MUST LISTEN to show featuring JACKLYN RYAN - a sought-after speaker, consultant, workshop presenter, and best-selling author of the gut-wrenching book, “CareGivers, ScareTakers - Exposing Fraud In Senior Care”. With an aging population, families are struggling with dependable, trusted care. This process is riddled
with problems. What can adult children do to protect their parents from abuse and financial theft and also protect their inheritance and peace of mind from unscrupulous caregivers?
Just like all of us, Jacklyn was instantly faced with a heart-wrenching time in life when her parents were no longer able to care for themselves are soon learned the world of home healthcare agencies is riddled with what she calls inappropriate and unscrupulous ScareTakers. Armed with her and other's powerful personal stories, plus extensive research on this undeniable problem, Jacklyn is sharing this life-changing information through her enlightening book in hopes of revising the process for those looking for appropriate and trustworthy care for their loved ones. 

We covered the following topics and more:
• How to better prepare when you enter the "wormhole of healthcare" 
• The Actions You Can Take to Safeguard Your Family Inheritance and Expose the Scammers. 
• Don't wait for a Crisis to happen! Prepare YOUR OWN Care Ahead of Time. 
• We neglect to make a plan for our own care when we can no longer care for ourselves. 
• Make a Plan and Put it in Writing. 
• Discover resources, how to research and reviews on agencies and caregivers. 
• "My Father  (or Mother) is in Love with His Caregiver! "

Connect with Jacklyn here:
EMAIL: info@caregiverscaretakers.com
WEBSITE: https://caregiverscaretakers.com
LinkedIn: Jacklyn (Jacci Perry) Ryan 
X: @Jacklyn72519695

Transcript

Don Priess: 0:00

When the world has gotcha down, and Alzheimer's sucks, it's an equal opportunity disease that chips away at everything we hold dear. And to date, there's no cure. So until there is we continue to fight with the most powerful tool in our arsenal. Love. This is Love Conquers Alz is a real and really positive podcast that takes a deep dive into everything. Alzheimer's, The Good, the Bad, and everything in between. And now here are your hosts Susie Singer Carter, and me, Don Priess.

Susie Singer Carter: 0:40

Hello, everybody. I'm Susie Singer Carter.

Don Priess: 0:43

And I'm Don Priess and this is love conquers all calls, hello, Susan.

Susie Singer Carter: 0:50

Oh, Donald, we have been a delay issue. So

Don Priess: 0:54

we are it's as if I'm in Europe, or in maybe Mongolia right now, when I'm literally like, 11 feet from you. Yeah. And we have this like, massive delay. And, and I think it's intermittent. So it really makes for great, great broadcasting and good conversation. Because then I can just run right over you. It's flow flow. So nice. My gosh, anyway, we'll spare you all this boring crap. But today, it's going to be exciting. I found we have going to talk to another incredible advocate for our seniors and their well being. And it's really fascinating. And it's, it's amazing to to keep discovering how many amazing people are out there doing doing just, you know, work that that nobody's really applauding, like, it's really hard work, right? Well, because they care. It's just because they care. They care for other people. They don't it's not just about themselves. And you know, and sometimes it's a big fat Vendetta. No, I'm kidding. Yeah, which it should be. Which is more fun that way. I'm mad

Susie Singer Carter: 2:13

as hell, and I'm not gonna take it anymore. Wow. Do you remember that movie? Okay, network, remember? Sure

Don Priess: 2:22

do. Yeah, that would be network.

Susie Singer Carter: 2:24

I just said that network. There goes our delay. Anyway, Don, what?

Don Priess: 2:31

Well, let's get to it. Shall I introduce our fabulous guest? Yeah.

Susie Singer Carter: 2:37

Except Can I just out h&m? I'm wearing an h&m sweater. That's brand new. Oh, and I just put it on because it's a happy color. It's a royal blue that I love. And look.

Don Priess: 2:52

Oh my god. That is not good. Maybe it's that your biceps are so big. They just tear through the the material? I don't think that's yeah, that's let's go with that. Like, okay,

Susie Singer Carter: 3:10

anyhow, yeah. They have proof now. Yeah. All right. Anyway. Can we get quality anywhere? That's the question. All right, go. Don introduce our amazing guest. Jacqueline

Don Priess: 3:21

Ryan is a successful realtor and a USA Today and Wall Street Journal best selling author whose world was turned upside down when her parents were no longer able to take care for themselves. She was thrown into the deep dark wormhole of senior health care without warning or knowledge. After caring for her dad for over five years and her mom under hospice care for six months. Jacqueline quickly learned the world of home health care agencies is riddled with what she calls inappropriate and unscrupulous scare takers. Armed with her and others powerful personal stories, plus extensive research on this undeniable problem. Jacqueline is sharing this life changing information through her enlightening and often gut wrenching book, caregivers scare takers exposing fraud in senior care. A sought after speaker consultant and workshop presenter, Jacqueline hopes to revise the process for those looking for appropriate and trustworthy care for their loved ones. And we're so looking forward to sharing her journey today with you. So without further ado, let's say hello to Jacqueline Ryan.

Jacklyn Ryan: 4:28

Hi, Don. Hi, Susan.

Susie Singer Carter: 4:50

so deeply because I have become the staunch advocate. And you know, unwittingly, unwittingly, right? Yes.

Unknown: 5:00

Yes, we have our life and then something happens. And it's a life changing moment, isn't it?

Susie Singer Carter: 5:09

Yes, it is. And, and the either you embrace it, like you and I, and which is and there's no judgment either you do and you want to. And, and for me, it's been a way of of dealing with this situation that I just find incredibly shocking, like I was sucker punched, you know, by learning how our system really works. And, and I just and the weight for me to grieve my loss of my mom was is to, you know, vindicate her a bit, and everybody else that has been in this situation and hopefully, you know, hopefully, by

Jacklyn Ryan: 5:52

the age of 2430 years from now, somebody's gonna be taking better care of us.

Susie Singer Carter: 5:57

Let's hope let's hope God willing. So, so, yes. So, and other people, I get it, we'll just go, I've done. I've done my job. I did. Well, and I also say that was you, whoever would that's your choice. I applaud that too. Right? Because that that is not that, that maybe that's not your purpose, and that's okay. That's okay, too. We, you know, we all have to to find out where we what Lane we need to be in. And this for me feels good. And it sounds like it feels really good for you as well. Because, yeah, you wrote a book with a great title. I love titles, you know, caretaker, no caregiver who's scared taker. So, we before we were recording, you said to me, we are both similar. We're almost doing things in parallel, but you're doing it from the inside, and I'm on the outside. So explain what you mean.

Unknown: 6:56

Well, I'm more focused on the homecare agencies, my parents never went to a nursing home, so to speak, maybe rehab after the hospital. I saw enough of that there. But the homecare agencies it really is like the Wild West really still is. There's no regulatory oversight of these homecare agencies. There's not and you know, I don't know how to open an agency, I guess I just could get license, maybe I'll be background checked that my workers are supposed to be background checked. But are they really in my in my career of commercial real estate, I've sold real estate in the state of Texas in the state of Arkansas. And in both states, I have been fingerprinted, and background checks. So even if I was not in your house, Susie and sell your little piece of dirt in LA, and I'm not even in a house, I have been fingerprinted and background checked. And so everybody needs to be aware of the real estate associations do require that of people of us coming in your home or selling a piece of dirt not even being in your home. However, the people coming into our vulnerable loved ones home to take care of them while they're sitting there incapacitated. Might not be background check. And they are not fingerprinted in the state of Arkansas. I cannot speak for the other states. I am working on legislators here in my state to get laws passed to require fingerprinting and background checks on an annual basis.

Susie Singer Carter: 8:47

You know, it's so it's so interesting, because I was looking at, you know, your, your list of complaints, you know, for lack of a better word, and you know, it, it it it mirrors what's going on in the facilities. And when you you know, so, so much so, like you said, you know, well, I love what you say about raising the bar on caregivers will raise the bar on the quality of care. Well, that goes that goes without saying, right. I mean, we are severely understaffed, despite CMS is you know, most recent edict of you know, minimum staffing, which is well below what we really need. And and that was just all performative and you know, optical illusions to get to have everybody go, Oh, yay, CMS is doing something baby steps after 50 years, you know, so, but but and they are not so the people that the quality of cares is, you know, it's it's rare now because they're not being paid enough, because they're not given enough, you know, training and, and, you know, and that's what's going on in the people that are very good at their job. They don't want to work there anymore because it's it's not it's not a healthy place for them to, to thrive as caregivers providers, correct? Correct.

Unknown: 10:10

They care. You can't care. They can care too much where it hurts their heart where they see and they have to leave. And so then our loved ones are in a place at at the loss of somebody else to be taken care of them. And it's interesting Susie is I have two friends who are our NS who train nurses. So they are in the interim, not necessarily coming into a nursing home by no means it might be into the hospital or to a doctor or something and they train the nurses, I said, Can you tell in the first few days whether these people really care or won't care? And they say, Oh, yes, we can tell if they will care won't care. If you're not in the care of humanity, go do something else. Go get, ya know, get the numbers, go do a desk job, don't care for humanity, then if

Susie Singer Carter: 11:10

you said there's no oversight, you know, or regulations for the home care industry. Now, when we're talking about facilities, nursing homes and long term care, we say there's no oversight, and there's no regulations. But what we're really saying is there's some regulations, but there's no oversight and, and or very little oversight and the oversight that's there is again to to quote myself as performative and and optic, and for the most part, if there is any kind of, you know, penalty. That's happened because it's just blatant. It's at the best a slap on the hand and the cost of doing business. For the people that are doing the the infractions. Yes,

Unknown: 11:58

the essence comes to mind, I have an elderly gentleman friend and his wife had Parkinson's in a nursing home up here. And this 86 year old man was setting traps in his wife's room. Now, what does that mean? So here's an he's a slide on his side. So he would put a cup someplace on the table or something, or he would put a pin someplace. And he'd come in the next day, to see if the cup had been moved to see if his wife had been changed to see if she'd been given a cup of water. He was setting traps this 86 year old man, and he had a list of complaints. I said, I will go with you, if you like, but I will go with you to talk to the administrator about that. So here's this 86 year old man setting traps in a in a room.

Susie Singer Carter: 12:52

Right? Well, I don't doubt it. I mean, you know, many people are in are completely cognitively, you know, adept and and are have their wits about them. They may just have a, you know, a physical ailment that is impeding their their, you know, functionality, but so are they, but is there no regulation, then is what you're saying? Because I think that's what I've heard is that there is no federal red regulations on homecare.

Unknown: 13:22

That is so correct, federal there's it's state by state, actually, and I, a gentleman I came across who owned one of the agencies I read about in my book, which he didn't know that at the time, and he was saying, well, there's he was the one that told me Well, there's no regulatory oversight on it. And I didn't know. Now, if the agencies accept Medicaid, then DHS might get involved.

Susie Singer Carter: 13:52

But what is DHS? Can you tell me somebody said no services,

Unknown: 13:56

Adult Protective Services? And I'm going to bring up a picture of my dad for a example, because I call DHS after my dad had fallen at his house with his Blackeye and stitches. So hard. Yes. And I call DHS capons. They finally came out, they went down. They interviewed him. Of course, a caregiver was there. I don't know which one, but no, they did not fall report. No, it was okay. Hey, he's being fed. He's got a roof over his head. He said he's fine. So there you go. Now, DHS would not do anything now. Right. And one of my chapters, DHS forcibly moved removed a 91 year old woman from her home here in Fayetteville, Arkansas. Her three adult sons were out of state, a caregiver that was taken care of her. Henry ported to DHS that this woman was not well, Her home was very cluttered. She was not letting on to her son's probably how dire the situation is. Or maybe she didn't even know how dire the situation was that DHS had text, my friend that they were gonna go by for a welfare chats, welfare check with the entire premises of having a place with his woman to remove his mother from her home, it took over three hours. How horrible is that for you knocking on the door, and somebody with a policeman is going to remove you from your home. And they put her in a facility for about a week for observation, and then put her as she called it, I went and saw her in a quote hellhole. And it is was, and she seemed pretty Cognizant to me. And it took about her about three weeks for her son's to come up here for a court date. They had to wait for the court date. There's no sense of them coming up until there was a court date to get custody of their mother and get her out of here as soon as possible. How

Susie Singer Carter: 16:11

is that possible? Can you explain that? Because so so the so the state had custody ever at that point. But how did how does that happen? So what a doctor, a document reports. The competency of this of this of this person, is that correct? Yes.

Unknown: 16:29

And I joined the three adults son's at the court, and the judge was looking back at us like, Why are these people here? Why are we here? Because this was not a typical neglect case. And here's the three sons. They're well off. They're out of state, Alabama, Georgia, Florida. I'm here locally, albeit maybe a little too late. But I'm here. And, you know, she was in a place. She was so cognizant, actually, Susie, when I came in and brought her a couple things, and they brought her little bear that was on our bed. The gentleman had mailed me a key I brought her a couple things. It's just Oh, Jackie, will, can you bring me this and this and this and this. So I brought her the DVD player the next days, as you see Downtown Abbey or whatever, whatever. And then she says, No, take it all back because it'll be stolen. I did and the bear was gone within a week's time. So So,

Susie Singer Carter: 17:34

so what so let me backtrack a bit. So you say you were there for this woman and the sons like, how did you How were you involved in it? How did you are as a sort of like a unofficial a Budman? Is that Well,

Unknown: 17:49

no, I was, you know, I do real estate. So then I was asked to prepare a house for sale and get it on the market. And, you know, the boys came in town, got a dumpster just started throwing stuff in the dumpster. So we could and I got a landscaper to prepare a home for sale and everything. Her home is vacant. There's there's no security, nothing. I mean, it's like over July 4 weekend, people know the home is vacant. And they were some kids who have been doing some fireworks in our driveway or something over there in town. And the place the place have gotten overgrown.

Susie Singer Carter: 18:24

You know, her mail was sent she was taken out of her home and you as a real estate agent came in and saw what was going on. And so you stepped in as just a good citizen. Yes, yeah. Who are you Jackie Ryan? Oh, my God. That's crazy. That's amazing.

Unknown: 18:44

Thank you. And that's what I mean. Susie is my career's been real estate. And then all of a sudden, not only my dad's story, which was about a six year story condensed into 30 pages, my mother's story of six months condensed into a few pages, but then I'm running into all these people. I'm dealing with this one gentleman I said, and he was in Texas, I said, You're so lucky, your mom's in a nice home down there. He said, Let me tell you why she is. You know, homecare agency, Maria was taking the money from his mother and giving it to her husband who was getting divorce from her to go to Mexico, blah, blah, blah. And the CPA ended up calling the son about all this money leaving her account.

Susie Singer Carter: 19:29

You know, it's interesting, because it's like, what you deal with more more often than not in in home care is financial abuse, right? Because once somebody like my mother gets into long term care at that stage in her life, you either have paid down all your money been made to so that you can get into a home because Medicare doesn't take take you know, do long term so have to have, you know what, less than$2,000 Whatever it is, depending on the state And then you can, you know, then then Medicaid will step in and and cover your facility your your residence. And so, but, but with homecare you can still be on Medicaid in home care, I imagine right? Or not

Unknown: 20:18

certain agencies will accept that only certain agencies will accept that and that's what I've learned that oh, maybe DHS could have stepped in then. But if it's private pay, nobody's gonna step in, nobody's gonna do anything. When I was having issues with the agency, or this particular caregiver, that was taking 10s of 1000s of dollars from my dad, accepting receiving however you want to term it. The Sheriff's Department DEA is District Attorney. Nobody because why? Because I'm the whiny little daughter. Um, no, exactly. Yeah, you know, that's

Susie Singer Carter: 21:04

right. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Billy, yet we have PTSD from that.

Don Priess: 21:13

So when you contact I mean, we're gonna we've got a lot to cover as far as like starting off, you know, you know, finding the, you know, quote, unquote, the right person to take care of your if there are any. I know they haven't you sign something that says we are not liable for anything that happens. Oh, and if and if they do, say, don't have that, obviously, your recourse is that it can't be enforced, or no one's enforcing it. But there is what is what does that look like when you say, Okay, I'm going to go with, you know, you and you're going to bring somebody into your home?

Susie Singer Carter: 21:46

Like, what is their liability?

Unknown: 21:49

You know, my dire mistake, any of our dire mistakes, we're in a crisis mode, something happened. And we're in a crisis mode, I didn't interview three or eight care agencies, I interviewed one, somebody I knew, and there are when, and you just signed, you could probably do a 30 day out clause or something like that. There is supposed to be something done. Like if you want to hire this caregiver personally and quit paying the agency, you might need to do a termination and pay the agency 10 $15,000, give him a termination fee. And then you could hire the caregiver direct. And that was discussed too, with this particular caregiver. But it didn't happen. And I tell you, at first, I just thought that the owners didn't know what was going on. And I dare say that I considered the owners, my friends, because I'd stop in their office, and they just thought the world and my dad and you know, and we would talk and all this, but as time or years wore on, and then when she this caretaker confessed told me in front of a neighbor, that, Oh, she'd been in jail before for meth years earlier. And I did find her picture on mugshot.com. And no wonder she had a beautiful smile because her teeth weren't real. Yeah. And I went to the agency about this. I said, Did you know this? And we turned it around? He says, Well, yes, you know, but we kind of inherited her, Jackie, because I had moved her from one agency to this agency, because the other agency had the accounts receivable woman, embezzling money and stealing from the company, and double charging us time and a half. And so I didn't know the background of this caregiver, but my dad liked her. So I moved her and another lady had already moved into this other agency. So I just moved Claire, to this other agency. I would assume, of course, they'd do a background check. And I would assume that they are vetted to take care of our loved ones, don't you think when you hire a homecare agency,

Susie Singer Carter: 24:15

right. I mean, it's so is such so baffling to me, like the difference between, you know, opening a nursery school or a, you know, a care after school, you know, child care center, whatever the case may be, you have to be vetted. You have to be licensed, you have to be you know, there's all kinds of regulations, you could be shut down, you could be arrested, you know, and it really speaks to ageism, because, you know, it's like, these are our precious children, which they are, but these are our precious elders. Yeah. And they're not being treated like that and and it's it's, it's it's absurd that there's no regulating body for home care. And it's such a lucrative business on top of the fraudulent activity, like set aside the fraudulent activity. It's super lucrative. And I'm right to say that Medicare is, is taking care of a lot of those payments, right? So that's federal money. Yes. And that's only where, why aren't they overseeing that? Because I'll tell you why, Jackie, because it's CMS. And they don't care. They just check off the boxes,

Unknown: 25:31

like off the boxes, it's easier just to check off the boxes and go on down the road, who knows who cares and going. Now you touched on something Susie. And what I'm working on for legislator is including daycare, teen facilities, disabled and senior care why? Because that would hit the newspaper, some there was a man at a T juvenile delinquent teen facility. And then he moved from there to go to a daycare facility. And then he was picked up for molestation of a three year old toddler girl. Well, how was he at the daycare when he'd been at the team facility before? And had he not been? You know, maybe some of this doesn't come up? Maybe the background checks, of course, maybe doesn't bring up something? I don't know. But that's where you got to raise the bar on the caregivers or raise the bar on the quality of care, which comes

Susie Singer Carter: 26:29

in right. I mean, bad things are gonna happen. But but we do, do what we can to mitigate most of them. Right. That's what that's what the goal. So if you have nothing in place, then then it's it's really just, you know, like you said, it's like, it's, it's like the wild wild west.

Don Priess: 26:47

I mean, we have plumbers come into our homes that are bonded and licensed. We have you know, it's like, that's what people, companies advertise. We are bonded and licensed plumbers, construction, people, things like that are just coming into your home for a day, right? Whatever it is not taking care of anyone

Susie Singer Carter: 27:04

just taking care of your plumbing. I know. And these people are bathing your loved ones, they are feeding your loved ones. And and now I'm I'm just going to say this number out loud, because it's, it's disgusting and despicable. But it's like it from your book, it's $37 billion is stolen each year from financial exploitation of seniors. And that's from the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. So that's a fact. And that is and the fact that they are getting away with this. And it's again, it's just, it comes down to oh, well, that happens. Oh, well, it happens. Yeah, because what can you do? No one's really caring because it's no skin off their nose. And it just cost more and takes more time to investigate. Am I right? Or am I wrong?

Unknown: 27:57

Well, look, doesn't everything boil down the money? Yes. So okay, even your CNAs I don't know, how much are your CNA is being paid? In California?

Don Priess: 28:12

Maybe, you know, maybe 1817

Susie Singer Carter: 28:15

To 18 to$19. With no with no benefits? And, yeah, and and being overworked? Yes, with too much too many people they're very have too many people to care for. And so they are burned out or, and or having moral injury, you know, and, and so we've had an exodus of love caregivers, cared for care providers. Well,

Unknown: 28:50

and there is a difference. So as asking about your CNAs CNAs in a facility here, maybe any started 13 to$15 an hour possibly these caregivers though, and this is the difference. People a caregiver is not a nurse's aide, a caregiver is there for companionship, to help to assist to possibly clean and cook a little bit, but they are not a nurse and they not they are not even a CNA. No, they are just sorry, they are just caregivers. So our caregivers in the state of Arkansas may make 10 to 12 $13 an hour while the agency makes around 20 to $25 an hour. Wow. And in Florida, it may be 15 $16 an hour while the agency makes $35 an hour so there's a healer here. And it's like who would want to work anywhere who would want to work for $12 An hour or under a Going right wage at McDonald's at Walmart or Sublime, and getting a hiring bonus, instead of working sitting with an old person all day long and watching the restaurants with them, and they're going to be grapey. And you got to clean them up sometimes or something, but you don't get paid a whole lot. But hey, maybe you feel entitled. And so you start looking around their house as soon as you can get and start manipulating them to see how much money you can get from them. It happens that easy.

Susie Singer Carter: 30:33

Right, right. I mean, I know that, you know, before my mom went into a home when I had her in my house, and before we had the caregiver that you saw in my film, my mom and the girl who was like our family, and I was trying to I was using people to help me from agencies. First of all, the first couple that came, who had no experience with Alzheimer's at all. And one of them was like, came she was super nice. And then before the night was over, she goes, I'm out of here. This is too hard. Like, what? What do you mean, you're out of here? I need you. What are you doing? Where are you going? You know, and she was like, You

Don Priess: 31:16

were told the agency, your mother had Alzheimer's? They so they sent somebody in theory, who was you know, have done dealt with that before? But no, not at all. Not and literally left. It was a night it was like eight o'clock at night. And she says I'm done. I

Susie Singer Carter: 31:29

called the agency. I was like, your your caregiver just left. And my mom wasn't a bitch. My mom was, you know, so she had probably, you know, sundowners or whatever. And she was probably being a little bit agitated. And she was like, I can't, I can't, which is fine. But it's like, you're you're sending this woman to tip. I'm depending on

Unknown: 31:51

her? Yes, yes.

Susie Singer Carter: 31:55

She just left.

Unknown: 31:58

No, no, that was a girl named Kelly. And she was she was kind of a funky girl. She had dreads and dead like dirt kicked good omelette, and this and that. And she was around for maybe four or five months. And then I was on the phone to her. And it's like, and then I was on the phone. I was out. And I said when she left, and it's like, I gotta go, you know? I mean, I was like this, this girl left, he left? That's like,

Susie Singer Carter: 32:28

I left your dad alone. Yeah. So, so alone is crazy to me. So what in terms of your advocacy? So I know it's state to state. But but because, you know, anybody over 65 is his, you know, going to be on Medicare, and that is federally funded. And we pay for that that is comes out of how much we make through our life. Right. So how, how do you think like, what is your what are you going to propose to, to Congress to to or to your state? You know, to say, this is what you know, is that an angle that you're going to take to say, you know, where are you guys like, we shouldn't be having to do this.

Unknown: 33:16

I have been working three years on a couple of local legislators. And let me tell you the process in any state, I spoke with a lady in California that day, she was trying to get hold of one of our state senators, I said, No, no, no, you have to go to your house of representatives first. So the House of Representatives have smaller districts than the senators. The House of Representative man that I was working with is now a state senator, being in real estate and had a lot of real estate locations for him to put his sign out, to advertise for him to come, you know, House representative and the mistake senator and his sister's got ALS and we can relate. We need some help. And then he's in office and he's just is okay, thank you very much. Um, he's gone, whatever. So that's fine. What I who I was in contact with the last six months, though, is our Arkansas Association of Alzheimer's policy maker. His name is David Cook. So he and this particular legislator got a law passed about requiring law enforcement to take a couple of continuing education classes when they're renewing, I guess their license and law on how to deal with people with Alzheimer's. That's awesome. So yeah, but it's because I found them yeah, yes. Are the the Alzheimer's Association AARP, they keep changing people I haven't gotten anywhere there. So I am working with this David Cook of the Arkansas Alzheimer's Association. He's got my book, he's got more stories, I keep sending him because stories are never ending more people are coming to me about what to do and everything. And so I am requesting, and it's got to go through a family committee. First, it's got to go through committee, then it goes through the house to get the support of the house, and then it would pass the Senate, and then it would become law. So that's the process. And it may take a year that just had a session last fall. Now we're going to be into a physical session. So it may be another year, but I will This is my sole mission is to get this law passed. To have all caregivers have humanity to be fingerprinted, our finger printed, and it's called FBI rat back. It's an ongoing real time background check. And how did I find out about that? Oh, I was renewing my broker's license in the state of Texas and I gotta fill out extra documentation about FBI Rat Pack and its ongoing real time background check. Yeah, okay, whatever. It's like, what is this? And why did this happen? Oh, so in Texas, I guess there were a lot of realtors who had been in jail and doing real estate transact, dealing with the public out here. So the Texas Real Estate Commission got this implemented. Okay, great. How about we get this implemented for caregivers? How about how about for anybody who cares for anyone on a one to one basis to be FBI rat back on time, ongoing real time background check. So if Missy Missy is up in Vegas and gets picked up for meth dealing in Vegas, and she's gonna go back to the nursing home to go work. It's not that your State Department's it rest of your state police. They're not going to do anything, but they would notify their current employer. Hey, living facility. Did you know Missy was picked up last week for math. So then the owner, the employer would know, the employer would know otherwise, they're gonna take their sick leave vacation time, get it done, and they're still dealing meth or doing meth outside? Right.

Susie Singer Carter: 37:39

Okay, let me ask you a question. Just playing devil's advocate. So let's say you that gets enforced yet gets you know, that policy comes into the your your it becomes a state policy. And so So Missy gets picked up for meth. And then they They alert, the agency that she works with. And the agency goes, Oh, okay, thank you very much, but they still send her out to homes. Can they do that?

Unknown: 38:08

I guess they could still do that. They would know.

Don Priess: 38:13

Yeah. And then what's the recourse? Yeah, what's what's your recourse? After let's say you find all that out and they they knew now what is the law is not going to back it up. That's where oversight Yeah.

Susie Singer Carter: 38:29

On a lesser level, and some people might say it was exact same level, I kind of think it is only it's not human beings. But when you know, I lost I one time. For the first time I was on a festival circuit with my film. And I had to leave my Yorkie my beloved Yorkie with a company called rover.com, because we were having a heatwave. And it was in and the film festival was in Palm Springs, so it was going to be in the triple digits. So I wasn't going to bring her because it was way too hot. And she had a collapsed trachea as your keys do long story short, the rover.com You guys said, you know, their advertising is that, you know, these are all, you know, excellent people. And these is this is their vocation. And the woman that I picked, you know, her profile said she was experienced with with older dogs and giving medication, yada yada. My dog died less than 24 hours in her care. And what I came to find out was that none of their dog sitters were vetted or bonded, or checked or background check, none of them were so it was just if you wanted to put your profile on rover.com You can do it. So and I'm not talking out of school listeners because they you know, here CBS News did a story on on me and two other families who had similar things that happen with rover.com. And so in, they're still in business. They're still in business. And and I'm sure that there's a lot of really good sitters that do are incredible. And but but the fact is, is that when you have a company that represents themselves as as an aggregator of these kinds of services, you, you just assume that you're in good hands because you didn't go on Craigslist. Right?

Unknown: 40:32

Right. Right. Right. Yes. And to further that conversation, I have used care.com. And care.com is a nationwide same thing. Pet Care, Senior Care, children care, some of the errands or something like that. I use them one time for this elderly gentleman before he put his wife into the home. And it worked out, okay. For the reason. I say okay, on behalf of him, he's 86, She's 84, she's got Parkinson's, we're looking for somebody to come in twice a week to do some cooking, cleaning companionship, and experience with somebody who's got Parkinson's. And so some people would show up on screen and this and that and everything, okay, we're offering to pay $18 an hour, which is more than a agency with pay anybody else. And I found this lovely lady who had come from California, to here in Northwest Arkansas. And I got her, you know, we spoke by phone. She knew I was going to do a background check on her, which we did for extra money. I did call her reference in California, she had been taking care of a quadriplegic a couple years earlier or something. And she worked out great for a few months until he had to put her his wife into a home. So it worked out. On the other hand, that yes, I've heard other stories about care.com You cannot ever be too careful. You know, there's nobody to talk to you@kerr.com It's you hire the person, you fire the person.

Susie Singer Carter: 42:18

Right? Right. It's so they're just aggregating. And it's really a platform for people to go to. And and they don't take responsibility for, you know, the services. It's like, Here you go. This is a one stop shop where you can go and find people that and then it's on you. It's, you know, it's the home. You are you are it's incumbent on you, as the customer to do exactly what you did Jackie, which is to do the background check to do the interviews to do everything. Because you can't assume that that ever that anybody is is you know, just sight unseen. Right? For the job. No. And so which is which is so scary. It's scary.

Unknown: 43:05

There's something that comes to mind. And why I did my is, you know, and the same with you, Susie, with your background, you were filming you were documenting. I was documenting things going on, I was documenting so much I was documenting, I was making copies of the care sheets and this and that I was getting. I was getting into the company's business because I was picking up I eventually started picking up the care sheets and started highlighting, you know, this box is blank. And this is, you know, my dad's constipated when he's in the hospital. Why? Well, gee, he's got pecan pie pork chops and corn on the cob. What do you think? I mean, I'm not in this business. But what do you think, you know, and, you know, I was getting in their business. And it got to the point, what, what the reason I did my book was I had so much documentation, it's like, Okay, other people would just say, I am so glad that Chapter My life is over. I'm glad it's done, close the book and go on. But when I started realizing it's not just me, it's all these other adult children out here, that we're dealing with the same problems and the same problems, different places, whatever, and, and COVID. And all these people they're not qualified to take care of our loved ones. They are not when you of course, assume, hey, if you're going to use a realtor, you know, you assume the realtor should know something about real estate. We should. So you know that's in you know your film business. That's what you do. I expect you to do the best you can do because that's your business. You hire a homecare agency, you put your mother in a in a home, you expect them to take the best care of humanity because that's their business. It's really simple. It should be simple as that.

Susie Singer Carter: 44:58

I agree. I agree. I agree.

Don Priess: 45:02

So that was a big question. Okay, I was gonna say there's like, there's a huge question. And then maybe it's too big. Which is, I'm I need, I need to to hire somebody. What are the red flags? And I know there's no way to guarantee anything, but how do we mitigate the risk when we start to go out and start looking for someone to take care?

Unknown: 45:31

Okay. What you need to do, interview at least three agencies or five, eight individuals, I say now bypass the agency hire direct. But if you've got to hire an agency or hire direct, ask the person if they mind having a background check, you can conduct a background check. Ask about their record, ask, ask them. What would you do if my dad had a temper tantrum and threw a glass of milk on the floor? How would you respond to that? Or how would you respond if my mother says there's people in her house and this little girl keeps running around the room here? How do you respond to that? And that was a very good qualifying question. Because I was asking that of some of these people for this Parkinson's lady. And somebody say, Oh, well, that's just not real. You know, we won't look at that or something. Well, it is real. It is real to them as you and I speaking. And it doesn't matter. If there is nothing to argue that this other lady who's in a home right now she would say, Well, how's your dad? And I say he's fine. He's out there checking the cows, and he's gonna go fishing tonight. He's been dead for four years. Doesn't matter to her. Just go. There. Right. Right dancer. So kind of some flags there. Also, Don, I felt I felt grateful. And so ooh, I once I won a pot of money of 60 bucks one night at a at a elk club or something. And Claire came by and I said, Hey, here's an extra 30 Oh, really? Come on. Yeah, here, enjoy. I really appreciate your help. And she took the money. She's employed by the agency. They're not supposed to accept money. Oh, she shouldn't have accepted many funding. Okay, right. And so that I didn't know, I was just grateful that and that's part of the story. And that's something else is Claire, one she showed up. First, she showed up on time, three, she was engaging had a bright smile. And it's like, oh, she's fantastic. Because when I heard, you know, before, even through the agency, same agencies, somebody show up, they might show up late, they might not show up. You know, so as it really excited in this woman. I felt like I had a new best friend. But you know, it's all a freaking business. It's a business. I did not keep her at arm's length, because I was just so excited that she took care of Dad Dad liked her dad liked her dad liked her a lot later. Not fight that either. So, you know, to answer your question, Don, those are some flags, say, you know, if you do hire them, and you want to give them extra $50, and they are employed by an agency, see if they accept it or not.

Susie Singer Carter: 49:00

So that would be one, you're checking on their honesty, you're checking on their, on their, you know, education and experience. Because, you know, at the very least they should be experienced and you know, like whether you have Parkinson's, dementia, any of the dementia is Alzheimer's, a lot of those kinds of behaviors that we're not used to are very, very common. And if you don't know how to deal with them, if someone's seen something and having a hallucination and seeing, there's a little fire in the corner, you gotta go, I'll get it. Let me get that out right now. And you turn that light off, or you cover it with a piece of paper, whatever it is. So if they don't know that that's just basic. That's basic for someone who is supposed to be a professional caregiver. So they don't know that it's not your job, nor do you have time as a family caregiver. It's obvious if you're paying for someone to come in, to have to educate them. Yes,

Unknown: 49:59

yeah. Send even my mom, which I went, there was a time I was dealing with two different agencies at the same time. My parents been divorced, 30 years, whatever. They lived 30 minutes away. So dad and the deal going on nearby here and then my mother and having to spend the nights over there. And deal with the different people coming in. And my mom lying there. And it's like, I'm saying this because it's just so small. That meant so much is a she loved watermelon. And the caregivers of Well, she didn't eat anything all day long. I'm going oh, and but my mom was lying there the cancer and I would give my mother a bite of watermelon, like the size of my small finger. First joint, not my thumb. But my. I don't know how I know this. And I gave that to my mother. She's, oh, that just tastes so good. Because it's cool. Cool. Yeah. And to do that, and, you know, how do I know this? I don't know how I know this, but you just know this Good grief. And so that was something that way. The first week with my mother with this other agency is when this woman came in. She was coming in late. And she's still my mom's narcotics. She's still my mother's narcotics are reported the agency the agency just moved on to another client slash victim. They did not fire her until 45 days later. I've got the police report right here. Yes, she admits she did a written confession. She's doing my mom's narcotics for her ailing mother in law. oxy cotton. She's selling it out there, you know, and no, there was no recourse for her. That's another

Susie Singer Carter: 51:53

big problem to Narcos is narcotics and a lot of caregivers that are not on the up and up. That's another abuse that happens as well is, you know, it it goes you know, look at we're almost an hour into this conversation. And I feel like we just drowned. Yeah, we just started it, it really speaks to what you call the wormhole healthcare, because it really is a wormhole. And I you know, I played Whack a Mole. Like, there's like wormholes everywhere. And I was playing whack a mole for, you know, a full year last year, you know, and, and I was like, so exhausted and so, so sad. And so disillusioned. Yeah. And, you know, and I think that it's going to take up a lot of me's a lot of us a lot of everybody's should make a huge collective change, because, and really banging the drum really loud, because, you know, just looking at the picture of your dad, your your sweet dad with those bruises in the stitches and which, you know, listen, people fall I get it, but you know, it should be treated as as something terrible. It should be like, you know, very, very, I mean, I don't know if you know this, but maybe the listeners don't falls, falls bed bed sores, you know, those are, those are never events, those should never happen. Caregivers. Those are like those are those for hundreds of years. You know, Florence Nightingale has a list of what is the responsibility of a good nurse. And one of the things is they your, your patient should never fall, and your patient should never have a bedsore. And they right, and I mean that those are basic things, or a UTI, they shouldn't have that. So these are never events. And so when they happen, you have to take it seriously and say what's going on? Good. This is not good care. Right? And you can't let people say to you, like I just said, People fall Yeah, they do. But they shouldn't. They shouldn't they shouldn't that shouldn't be the minority. But it is the majority majority.

Unknown: 54:12

He had fallen four times in one year under a different inept could have given not this caretaker, but you'd like to a couple times too. But when he failed the fourth time and broke his elbow, and he's like 88 years old. And of course, he's a smoker. And I spent that night with him and I call the agency. Oh, I was removed as his health care POA also. Yeah, so that was a whole story that

Susie Singer Carter: 54:42

I call yet you're off to do a tick well up the other everybody read her book read this book. Yeah, because it gets get all those details because the fact that you could be removed as the POA and that's another thing that happens. And in the documentary, I talk a little bit about it. The fact that you know Oh II, there's a lot of intimidation that goes on where they, you know, caregivers, family caregivers will be told, you know, your will report you for abuse. Yeah, we will, we'll get you we'll get your, you know, loved one as a guardian of the state will take them away from you. And so you have to don't report us, you got to you know, and basically, they feel intimidated, they're intimidating you, if that's happening, you need to go to your adult protective services are or you know, I would say ombudsman, because most of them are great, but most of them are Toothless. So go to you know, your, your protective services, your adult protective services,

Unknown: 55:48

maybe an elderly

Susie Singer Carter: 55:51

and get get get them get it on record what's going on, because they you know, do not feel intimidated. And and if they're intimidating you, that means that they're there, you have no scruples. So you bet, so best to get ahead of them, right? Yes, yes,

Unknown: 56:08

I in fact, I'll dare say, since we are unfiltered, I have a negative review on my Amazon on my book. And it's somebody who's got a vendetta against me. I was removed as my dad's POA because I was questioning making questions of spending $300 in groceries within about eight days, and this little skinny man $300 of groceries that went walking out the door. And I am in fact still in contact with one of the caregivers that was wrongly fired. And I was That's why I was removed as my dad's POA because I was into the homecare agencies business too much I was making too many questions. And I live like four minutes from my dad, who else best to take care of my dad than me to be? Spot.

Susie Singer Carter: 56:58

Yeah, this is a problem too. This is that's a huge problem. And trust me, I've talked to too many caregivers who have been intimidated. And and it's, it's, it's an you know, it's unconscionable. And, and that's another thing. So we got a big system that's broken. And we need to you know, the until it gets fixed. Everybody needs to be on their toes and really know what's going on and educate yourself. If they're in a facility, educate yourself. This documentary, I hope will, you know, enlighten everybody as to what's really going on? I'm not I'm not a person that likes to, you know, tell you that the bed, you know, I'm not telling you that the sky is falling. That's not me. I'm Pollyanna. I wanted to say everything's good. But this is the truth as to what's going on. It's it's real. And it happens. And you know, it's ugly. Yes. Ugly. Yes. Terrible. Thank you so much. Is there anything that we didn't touch on that you wanted to say? No,

Unknown: 58:01

thank you, Susie and dawn for bringing the abuse of the elderly, to the light, the light shines, the cockroaches run, and we have to all work together to bring this to fruition. I can't do it by myself. Now, by yourself. We all have to work together. And there's so many different facets going on out here affecting our seniors that will eventually affect us. 10 years from now or more. If we don't take care of it. We've got to get taken care of by the time we get 18 years old or whatever. Yeah,

Susie Singer Carter: 58:38

yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Or just sick, you know, just sick because it's not just old people. It's, you know, I interviewed several people in their 40s and in their 50s. And, you know, if you are beholden to a facility, you are dealing with the same issues may be a little less of the ageism, but your daughter is going to be the ableism that'll just make up for it. So, yeah, all right. Thank you so much. Thanks. Thank you. There you go. It's it's same it's the same it's the same fight just a different just a different different different areas. Thank you. Yeah, it's it's crazy, right? Like it just seems like it's it's so daunting, but we have to stay positive because you know, we need more Jackie's we need more dogs, and Susie's and and all my all my caregiver advocates out there are Ellen's and our and our Elizabeth's and Christina's and they know who they are. You know, there's so many of us out there and we just extend it but we can't do it alone. If we really need we need to we need a frickin gigantic village. We need a we need a country

Don Priess: 2:00:00

Yes, because every day we find out that there's more and more. And now this is just another arena. I mean, it's in the same world, in a different arena that exists, like you say exactly the same. And it all, you know, in the long run comes down to money as we found out, it's taller than money. But you know what, to try to remain positive,

Susie Singer Carter: 2:00:24

we have to remain positive because and we have to just keep, keep putting one foot in front of each other, and, and do the best that we can do. You know, and just we have to do it, there's nothing more important. There really isn't.

Don Priess: 2:00:38

And that's why we're doing the documentary, No Country for Old people, which, by the way, you know, our shameless plug, we are still looking for people to help, you know, help financially. So we can finish this halfway through you we have a we have a wonderful GoFundMe, and you can go to the national consumer voice for

Susie Singer Carter: 2:00:57

quality, long term care. It's, it's a mouthful, but they do so much. They do so much. And they're our fiscal sponsor, you can go there, we get more money. If you if you go directly there. We don't have to pay GoFundMe, their, their percentage. This is how desperate we are. We need to get to the finish line. This movie's going to be impactful, it's going to be powerful. We're we give you our word on that. I mean, we are in the group, and we are making it happen. So we're very, very, very proud of it. We have over 75 Incredible interviews. I know if you listen to us, you've heard this before, but it doesn't matter. We're telling you again, because we have a wormhole of care of health care that we need to get through and real and clean it out. So let's do it. Because I love you all. And I love you don. Because the words. Yep. And I

Don Priess: 2:01:56

love you, Susan. Thank you. And you know why? That's because love is powerful. Wow. Love is contagious. And love conquers. Oh, we thank everyone for watching or listening. And please do subscribe and follow and tell people about us and we will see you next time.

Susie Singer Carter: 2:02:15

Yeah, and also we also one other plug. We are on the whole care network. You can find us there. It's going to be great. We're going to be there. So we'll keep up. It's all new but in an intro then you know where to find us and have have a wonderful rest of your day, weekend night. Whatever it is fine.